When Card Games Break
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When Card Games Break

August 28, 2019

This video is brought to you by Squarespace. Whether you need a domain, website, or online
store, make it with Squarespace. In my home town’s middle school cafeteria,
the card game lunch room nerds were divided into 3 different tables: The Yugioh Nerds,
The Magic nerds, and the Pokémon nerds. Actually, there was a fourth table – the Digimon
nerds, but I mean, come on. I used to float between all of them as a spectator,
but I remember one such day The Yugioh Table was in an uproar, because Upper Deck had released
a new expansion pack that introduced a game-breaking combo which essentially allowed any player
to win on their first turn if they could pull it off. It worked like this… The card Catapult Turtle allowed its owner
to sacrifice a monster on their side of the field and deduct half of that monster’s
Attack Points from the opponent’s Life Total. Which is a pretty cool move, although because
you can only have a maximum of 5 monsters on the field at a time, it had its limits. However, when combined with the newly released
Magical Scientist, this limit was essentially nullified. This card allowed the player to Special Summon
virtually any number of creatures to the field immediately, which would then be loaded up
on the Catapult, and shot at the opposing player (repeatedly) until their life points
reached zero. Basically, if you got these two cards onto
the field at the same time, the game was over. And, often you could pull this combo off on
turn one, before your opponent even had a chance to play. The kids at the lunch room table were incredibly
bummed out, because, naturally, all of them made decks centered around this combo – and
when everybody is just trying to get an instant win, the game is no longer competitive, and,
y’know, it stops being fun. I was reminded of that little episode a couple
months ago when Hearthstone, one of the most popular online trading card games today, released
a new expansion, and, in it, a minion whose special effect caused a similar controversy. It seemed amazing to me that, over a decade
later, some of the SAME design mistakes continue to plague the world’s most popular games. And that raised a compelling question in my
mind that I want to discuss today – namely – what happens when you break a card game? (Sweet jazz music plays.) So, let’s talk about Shudderwock. (Dope drum beat.) In April of 2018, Blizzard released The Witchwood,
the eighth expansion to their online card game Hearthstone. It included a slew of new card mechanics,
and it experimented with the existing ones by turning them on their heads and implementing
them in new and exciting ways. The one we want to focus on is Battlecry. Basically, if a card has a Battlecry effect,
then that effect activates when the card is played. It’s the easiest mechanic to understand. This card has a Battlecry effect that Restores
3 Health. That means when you play this card from your
hand, your health is, y’know, restored by 3. Easy peasy, right? But it gets more complicated than that. There are TONS of Battlecry cards in the game,
some with REALLY powerful effects – and while up to that point Blizzard had (arguably) done
a good job of keeping the STACKING POTENTIAL of these cards under control, in WITCHWOOD,
they decided to try something crazy. Enter Shudderwock. Shudderwock is a 9-mana card, which means
you’re usually able to play it on that turn number. Probably means nothing to most of you, but
essentially, this is what you call a LATE GAME card. As a match between two opponents progresses,
the cards get more and more powerful. Your mana tops off on turn 10, so a 9-mana
card usually signifies something with extreme power. And Shudderwock doesn’t disappoint. It’s a 6 attack, 6 health creature. But the REALLY splashy part is its Battlecry
effect, which simply reads: “Repeat all other Battlecries from cards you played this game. (Targets chosen randomly).” This is a crazy and incredibly over-the-top
effect, and one that is really only suited for an online card game like Hearthstone. After all, online games have a built-in memory
that keeps track of each card, and the order in which it’s played during the match. Imagine trying to implement an effect like
this during a tabletop game of Magic: The Gathering. A player would have to manually sort through
all of his or her cards played during the match to figure out which Battlecries needed
to be repeated, and, as far as selecting targets randomly, I guess you’d need to assign each
potential target on the field with a number and either have a compatible die or random
number generator to figure out which card is targeted with which effect, which is a
headache in and of itself, and would take forever. Figuring it all out would be incredibly cumbersome
and, most importantly, the opposite of fun gameplay. So, in theory, Hearthstone’s online arena,
which does ALL that calculation and randomization instantly is the perfect environment to try
out such a chaotic card effect. In *practice*, however, well – see for yourself. So, this is ME verses some random guy. Hi, random guy. I’m playing a deck which is centered around
Shudderwock’s ability. (Which by the way, in order to get Shudderwock,
requires players to spend about $60 on the expansion pack, and even THEN you might not
manage to pull the card from one of the randomly generated booster packs, meaning you’ll
need to try again and keep spending more and more money until you get it.) Long story short, I finally got mine. So the game’s proceeding normally. Plenty of fun and flashy animations. Hearthstone does this so well. It’s part of why it’s been so successful
as a game. We’re on turn ten, I’m all set up, I finally
get to drop Shudderwock onto the field and THIS is the exact moment that the game stops
being fun. You’ll see why in just a bit. So to pull Shudderwock’s one turn kill off,
you need to play a combination of different cards earlier in the game,
with the idea being that these smaller Battlecries, when repeated by Shudderwock later all at
once, will be enough to overwhelm your opponent and drop their life points to 0. These are the cards in question: Lifedrinker (a sort of mosquito fellow): whose
Battlecry basically sucks 3 life points from your opponent and gives them to you. Saronite Chain Gang: A really annoying Minion
whose battlecry causes it to make a copy of itself the moment you summon it. And Grumble, Worldshaker, whose Battlecry
returns all other minions on the field to their owner’s hand and reduces their Mana
cost to just 1. Alone, these Battlecries are tough enough
to deal with during a match. But when you play Shudderwock AFTER them,
well… just try and follow me. Let’s say you’ve played ALL these cards
in the early game, and now that it’s late game, you have enough Mana to play Shudderwock. Shudderwock enters the game, and its ability
triggers – it now will recast all previous Battlecries you’ve used during the match. So it repeats the Lifedrinker Battlecry, sucking
3 health from your opponent and giving you a 3 health boost. So far so good – in fact, let’s say you
managed to play TWO Lifedrinkers before Shudderwock drops, that’s 6 health sucked from your
opponent! But THEN Shudderwock uses Saronite Chain Gang’s
Battlecry, meaning it summons a copy of itself. But wait a minute! That means this NEW Shudderwock’s Battlecry
is activated… which means Lifedrinker’s Battlecry is activated again, sucking ANOTHER
6 life from your opponent. And then THAT Shudderwock uses Saronite Chain
Gang’s Battlecry… so IT creates a copy of ITSELF and then the copy of the copy’s
Battlecry starts, and… well, you see what happens, right? Eventually your board FILLS with Shudderwocks…
and even if your opponent somehow manages to survive because your turn reached its time
limit…. I mean, what are they even supposed to do
against a board like this? And remember – you played Grumble, Worldshaker
too, so most of those Shudderwock copies will go to your hand, with a reduced cost of 1. So on your next turn, you literally have a
hand FULL of 1-Mana Shudderwocks to play, who will all create even more copies, and
then THOSE copies will create copies… you get it by now. Plus, just for fun you could play Murmuring
Elemental before dropping your first Shudderwock, and it will ensure its Battlecry triggers
twice, if you want this whole routine to last even longer. Now, in THEORY, this ridiculously over-the-top
late game combo should be pretty funny and neat to watch, but here’s the problem: When a Battlecry effect happens in Hearthstone,
a corresponding game animation plays. For a normal match, no big deal – you play
a card and it’s got a neat little 3-second flurry you get to watch before you can play
your next card. But imagine being caught in a constant loop
of those 3-second flurries – that’s not really fun to sit through, right? Right. Not only is it not fun for my opponent, it’s
not fun for ME. I literally am forced to wait and stare at
my phone while the Battlecry animations play out, unable to do any kind of input. Because you can’t do anything until a card’s
effect resolves – and this one, well, didn’t. (Shudderwock’s Battlecry animation playing
again and again and again and again and again and again……) You basically had to just watch until someone’s
health finally dropped down to 0. Here’s an extremely sped up version of me
playing Shudderwock. I’m not doing anything, here. This is just a solid 3-4 minutes of nothing
but Battlecry animations. I’m going to win. The second I played the card, I knew the match
was over, my opponent knew the match was over – but both of us had to wait for the process
to play out before we could start a new game. If you’re the loser, this is infuriating. You’re essentially forced to watch yourself
lose for several minutes. It’s demoralizing, feels like a total waste
of time, and it makes you want to stop playing. If you’re the winner… this gets old. Really, really fast. After its release, The Shudderwock Situation
became so bad on Hearthstone’s servers that lots of players would just automatically resign
when they were matched against the deck type because they just didn’t want to have to
waste time playing against it. A slow-paced Shudderwock deck can drag the
time of a single match to upwards of 23 minutes – half an hour if they’re purposely trolling
you. Would you want to sit through a half-hour
game that you know you’re just going to lose… especially when, in that time, you know you
could play at least two OTHER matches and have a decent shot of winning them? Of course not. And this game-breaking combo was so dispiriting,
that, just like in the middle school cafeteria, lots of players became so frustrated that
they just didn’t want to play anymore. I sort-of had an on-and-off relationship with
Hearthstone myself, but after a day or two of dealing with Shudderwock – I decided to
quit the game, and I’ve never played it since. For Blizzard’s part, they EVENTUALLY got
around to addressing the issue. After a month of letting Shudderwock rip through
the metagame, they released a patch that attempted to alleviate the issue by doubling the animation
speed of Shudderwock’s effect, and giving it a 20 Battlecry limit. This isn’t the first time Blizzard has attempted
to fix a broken mechanic. They regularly alter the properties of certain
cards in a process called ‘nerfing’ to try and keep the game balanced. But that raises an ethical question, namely: If YOU were a player who spent $60 dollars
or more to get hold of a certain card so that you could remain competitive, and then the
makers of the game CHANGED how that card worked so that it no longer had the same properties
you sought in the first place… Do they have any obligation to compensate
you? This opens up a bigger discussion about the
nature of online card games as a whole, compared to tabletop. If you buy a physical card that gets nerfed
for competitive organized play (or placed on some kind of restricted list, which is
more often the case) you can still theoretically play games privately using that card as it
was originally released – and, in that way, retain a little bit of the original purchase
value. But in an online system that can LITERALLY
change the text and value on every card you purchase at any time without your consent
or even warning, what are you actually purchasing? In that sense, do you even own the card? And, where should game designers draw the
line? Because, after all, you can apply this same
conundrum to ANY kind of game in the digital era in which we now live. In 1997, I could go to the store, purchase
a video game, and I could trust that the game would play the same way every time I turned
it on. I knew what I was buying, in a sense. But today, when I purchase a game through
an ONLINE service, that game will likely be routinely patched – sometimes altering the
game so much that after a year or two, it bears little to no resemblance to what I originally
purchased. This CAN be a positive, but, in a game like
Hearthstone which has a regular rotation of cards and gameplay mechanics, the negatives
can often be glaring. These days, games are perishable items. Just like milk, they have a shelf life. They will not stay the same after you purchase
them, even if you want them to. Does this mean that gamers need to adjust
their expectations? Or, do designers need to be more accommodating
to their customer base? I can’t give you an answer to these questions
because I don’t know the answer. But I’d love to hear what you think in the
comments. One thing’s for sure: card games have come
a very long way since I played them as a kid, and I find myself both excited and scared
to see where they go from here. Big thanks to this video’s sponsor, Squarespace. Hey, do you have an idea for a website? I promote Squarespace often on this channel,
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Only registered users can comment.

  1. As several Hearthstone players have correctly pointed out, I didn't quite explain some of Shudderwock's properties correctly/fully. While an "infinite loop" didn't occur precisely as I described, it was still possible with the combination of Grumble, Worldshaker, Saronite Chain Gang, and Murmuring Elemental. If you'd like to learn precisely how all of it worked, there are plenty of in-depth articles that can explain it (and the rest of the card game) in great detail. Feel free to Google something like "How The Shudderwock Combo Works". Don't listen to some filthy casual like me.

  2. This kind of video on an online cardgame makes no sense since devs can easily fix with a nerf wich is not the case with physical cards… not smart.. u cringe asf

  3. I think game players, game makers and indeed regulators all need to evolve and acknowledge the fundamental differences between physical and virtual media.
    Players need to unconditionally acknowledge the fact that virtual ownership does not exist.
    Publishers need to market their products honestly and fairly.
    Regulators need to prescribe better guidance to consumers and publishers with respect to the marketing of virtual media.
    Clearly a disparity in value exits between physical licensed media and virtual licensed media for the reasons noted in the video. I think often players are simply too naïve, game makers know well and intentionally sidestep or even promote misconceptions about virtual goods.

  4. Does anyone actually know how to play Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokémon, & Magic The Guardian? I only collected Pokémon & Yu-Gi-Oh cards that I thought looked cool.

  5. I sorta broke magic the gathering. I did this by basically having a crap ton of vampires , so I was just making myself get health.That or just kill other monsters and give myself there health.

  6. The entire Hearthstone section was an actual pain to watch. Filled to the brim with mistakes and lack of game knowledge.

  7. You don't need to buy packs until you get a hearthstone card, just buy it with mana. Never spent anything on packs in that game and I have no problem making decks.

  8. Unleash the hounds + starving buzzard combo being 4 total mana broke the game harder imo. That combo is 8 mana now.

    70 dollars, and if you don't get it, spend 70 more dollars? You sounded like you knew what you were talking about, and then you completely lost me right here. 50 packs will generate enough dust for a legendary.

    Summoned minions can't trigger batt— looks at comments

    Props on the video though, good concept, even if the execution isn't all there.

  9. "When Card Games Break" literally just talks about Shudderwock 10 or the 14 minutes which isn't even that strong

  10. I used to play some stupid card game, I spent like $60 on some special cards, the next day there was a new update that made the game CONSUME those special cards when you used them… I quit that garbagefest immediately.

  11. Magical Scientist was a solution to an even bigger problem in Japan looooong ago. We didn't get the card for years here as a result: Cyber Stein. Pay 3k LP, Summon blue eyes ultimate dragon which CAN attack because cyber Stein is even more broken than scientist/catapult combo, megamorph cause now you have less life points, 9000 damage to enemy.

  12. You people spend 69$on card games?? there are people starving in Africa I bet 100$ spent in Africa you can rent a house for a month or maybe make tubewells USA people have the currency at a good position should use it for charity rather on silly and childish games at least make the money's worth productive for yourself please save some money?, in India people generally never even think of spending money on games but there are exceptions I guess a few

  13. A cada conserto que a Konami tenta dar só piora, esperamos que não venha uma mecânica igual a Link Summon ano que vem.
    No caso do HearthStone é quase igual aos FTK de Yugioh.

  14. At 4:08, that isn't what a Magic card back looks like. It has and extra color of mana, Purple, which was never added to the game. Also, there are a few really weird random chance effects in MTG, most infamously Scrambleverse.

  15. They compensate u giving full dust to craft any card of that rarity, btw hearthstone was dead after the 1st rotation back in 2016

  16. There's this 1 Pokemon card where you can get all of your killed Pokemon cards back alive and you usually wait till end game to use it and your opponent can't do it so he's stuck with one card left so he's pretty much dead

  17. The Shudderwock combo has been fully nerfed, Saronite Chain gang has been changed to: “Battlecry: Summon another Saronite Chain Gang”

  18. Bro I like most of your stuff but you obviously just tried to make a triggering video for it to go viral. Kinda dog tho when your making a game seem bad that’s actually really good

  19. You honestly just should’ve said that the video was about hearthstone, you made one reference to yugioh and that was it, the rest was just hearthstone

  20. I stick more to your Golden Eye analogy. If i buy something, it should stay the same everytime i play it. If it gets a sequel that changes everything, then that's fine, i can always play the first edition every time i want. On the matter of "having the obligation to compensate you", if you bought a real card, they should send everyone the updated card for free or something.

  21. Game devs should allow earlier versions of the game to still be played like the system Minecraft has. You could play 1.14 but if you don’t like the new village and pillage mechanics you could play 1.13 or any other versions of the game. You can even play those early versions online. Fortnite especially should do this.

  22. I stopped playing HS since they started rotating cards years ago. I knew it was done to make the game more playable and make the designing process easier, but it just felt wrong to get some cards that you eventually won't be allowed to use anymore. Investing something that I'm destined to lose just feels stupid, and so I quit and now I'm happy that I did.

  23. I mean, if you spent money to get an op card and played it in a broken deck that should have never existed, you were a part of the problem, and you deserve to be punished.

  24. Idk exactly why, but I never liked Hearthstone that much…. Magic Arena is really more compelling to be, since I can build fun decks and have good wins without buying a single expansion… Anyway, I have friends that LOVE hearthstone and won't stop playing it even with these kind of problems…

    Btw, my favorite card game is (was) Duel Masters. Someone ever played it? I would pay a ton to have a DM game like Hearthstone or Magic Arena…

  25. In a game called Plants Vs. Zombies Heroes that seems decently similar to Hearthstone to me there was a forfeit option.

  26. 5:10 – absolutely not true, you can craft any card (with a few exceptions) and don't have to buy packs until you get it.

  27. PvZ Heroes solved this by making nerfed cards fully refundable, but I don’t know Hearthstone enough to know if this can work for Hearthstone.

  28. And this is why I like magic: 5 main formats that allow for all sorts of play and no card ever gets too old to remain playable

  29. Me and my friends had an instance of this crap in MTG later in the game, we played a graveyard revival card that brought back every creature in all graveyards… So many God damn etb triggers happened we took a good 20 minutes sorting through the order of operations and I overall won with slivers entering the battlefield :3

  30. My one gripe with this video is that it's too much about just Hearthstone and not applying it to the bigger question posed in the video's title (When Card Games Break). This is much more "Hearthstone: A Case Study of When Card Games Break". I would have loved it if this video delved further into the question/extrapolated further to Card Games as a whole.

  31. Funny how you complain about them not fixing the game, then immediately turn around and start complaining about them taking action and fixing the game.

    What is it that you want, exactly?

  32. Omg I realize this video is old but why is it still up. Literally half of the stuff in this video wrong. A comment won’t fix it just delete this video.

  33. There are several errors in this video that I caught while rewatching…
    1. The dust system in hearthstone means you can get rid of cards you don't want for, in this case, Shudderwock without spending a dime
    2. Summoned minions' battlecries do not activate like the Shudderwock copies
    3. "What are they even supposed to do against a board like this?" Answer: Vanish
    4. You can make possible inputs like attacking or playing cards while the game is playing animations. You can also click the card icon that appears to speed it up a bit. The opponent can also concede, which will register after the animations finish
    5. Sudderwock shaman wasn't even that big of a deal. Aggro decks could beat it before turn 9. It was just another meta deck among taunt warrior, combo druid, and more. There will always be OP decks like modern control warrior, murloc Paladin, highlander hunter, and… Mage; and old school raza priest, jade druid, quest rogue, and pirate warrior.

    Despite the inaccuracies of the video, I still enjoy the deep dive into game mechanics and game feel as concepts, and how they can conflict in a complex way.

  34. Literally never spent on a dime on this game and and am able to create competively viable decks whoch have legendaries in them. Hearyhstone also literally gives players many free packs and legendaries. Also pretty much everything in this video is wrong. I feel like a follow up should be made explaing things that he got wrong or just strait up delete this video

  35. imo this vid isn't about card games, it's about a card game (hearthstone) having one card that's busted and then complaining about the errata. here's the thing: physical tcgs also get those, and we have banlists for what can't be errata'd. pokémon's had a broken game several times, magic has too, yugi has, and those are the 3 most popular competitive tcgs there are. this just sounds more and more like a person who lost to shudderwock and can't get over it the more i think about it.

  36. To be fair to HS, you can fairly easily earn packs of cards, they cost 100gp, you get 10gp for every 3 wins, but you have 3 quests a day, which give you 50-60 gold each. So, a pack a day for something like "play 20 shaman cards."

  37. Funny how you say it’s overpowered. You need to draw all the nessesary cards first. Then play them. So it is harder then you think to do it. Aggro decks can easly beat this.
    Trust me when I say it’s kind of hard to do.

  38. 'Clone this card' Proceeds to clone a different card and break the game. This is what happens when you don't read properly.

  39. So, this is ridiculous, you dont need to buy a card…you can just craft any card you like. It costs only a few old or unused cards (dust) you found in packs. Even if a card gets nerfed you get the full dust-refund for it to craft any other card you like of the same quality. No negative impact whatsoever. And obviously not every developer can balance every aspect of such a huge cardgame as seen with Yu.gi-oh or magic, these things happen sometimes and most of the time they fix it. Your video is very biased. Grabble with the facts more next time.

  40. My opinion is that when you buy a physical copy of a game it becomes your property by legal means, but the content of the game doesn't. Even with physical games the company may decide to change it by online patches. That has happen in some shooters I used to play before… and even when you may expect your game to be the same every time, there may be disclaimers you accepted previously in order to play the game that allows the owners of the property to make those changes.

    If blizzard has compensated people in the way the comments bellow say, I think they may not be that legaly worry about it, but concern for the press it may generates. I was once subscribed to a magazine that stopped producing and instead of paying the money back they gave me another series of magazines instead. I don't have much knowledge on legal rights though I'm a animator and have some about copyright.

  41. My brother taught me yugioh. For years i used one deck, i just gor used to the cards and didnt like changing them out. My brother always beat me cause he was always updating and creating new decks. I sucked but it was still fun. I dont remember exactly what happened but we were plating fast and once u get used to the cards u barely need to talk u just put them down. It was one of the first times i won, and i remember we wanted t on start a game and pick it up t he next day becaus we had 5 minutes to bedtime. Enought time to draw and set the field a little and write down our positions and put up our decks and hands. Somehow i won the game and we still had 3 minutes to bedtime. My brother never won another game against me. I have since stopped playing though i still have my deck, the very same deck. My brother plays every once in a while but i refuse to play him. Im quite rusty and sure to lose, but by refusing to play my 2 year record of being undefeates remains. I know its cheating, but once u knock your big brother down a peg, you have to keep hin there.

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