JW.org on BBC National Radio · Jehovah’s Witness ‘Shunning’ doctrine discussed with Phone-in calls.
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JW.org on BBC National Radio · Jehovah’s Witness ‘Shunning’ doctrine discussed with Phone-in calls.

November 4, 2019


took from it my love the stylistics
that’s it for me see you tomorrow morning right now it’s midday and it’s
Vanessa thanks Ken hello this is Vanessa Feltz sitting in for Jeremy Vine and on
the program this lunchtime a French woman who objected to a man
making a graphically lewd comment to her in the street was brutally attacked. Are
you offended when somebody even wolf-whistles at you? And have you taken
action? We’re joined by the mother and father of the young woman who died on a
first date on a speedboat on the Thames. You decide to stop being a Jehovah’s
Witness after 20 years in the faith, what happens next. And if like me you’re one
of the sad people who’ve been glued to Love Island for the last eight weeks we
reveal all the wonderful things that you could have been doing instead you can
give me a ring on 08000 288 291 – calls are free from most landlines, some netwoks & mobile operators may charge for these calls, you can eMail [email protected] or contact us by text But first here’s the news with Tom
Harrigan. Thank You Vanessa, The education secretary Damian Hinds has said it’s a
scandal that some children are starting school unable to read simple words or
speak in full sentences. He’s pledged to make significant improvements by 2028.
Carey Scott a headteacher at a school in Chingford in London said parents can
also help. I think time is an issue for everybody but communicating with your
children there’s that’s that’s a necessity that’s that’s something that
we should be doing all the time and even in those in those small moments when we
get to be reading with our children we know that children whose parents read
them a bedtime story for example have higher literacy levels. It’s emerged the
man who bombed the Manchester Arena last May killing 22 people was rescued from
the civil war in Libya by the Royal Navy three years earlier. Salman Abady and
more than a hundred other British nationals boarded the survey ship HMS
Enterprise in Tripoli and were taken to Malta to be flown home. A BBC
investigation has found women are illegally taking abortion pills which
they’ve bought online at home to avoid enduring abortions on public transport.
Currently in England the tablets must be administered in a clinical hospital.
Scotland and Wales have both recently changed the law to allow women to take
the pills at home, Clare Murphy is from the British Pregnancy Advisory Service.
We live in a time where we talk about evidence-based medicine patient-centered
care and we cannot understand why women having an early abortion are excluded
from that and and and made – made to bleed on on trains in this way it’s
simply unacceptable. The retailer Dixon’s Carphone has said a
huge data breach that took place last year involves 10 million customers up
from its original estimate of around a million. In a statement the company said
personal information, names, addresses and email addresses may have been accessed
but not bank details. The sailor and entrepreneur Tony Bullimore has died
at the age of 79 from a rare form of cancer He was at the centre of a
famous rescue in 1997 after spending four days inside the hull of his boat
after it capsized in the Southern Ocean. And that’s the BBC news at 3 minutes
past 12:00 our next at 1:00 Coming up – do you object to being
wolf whistled and have you taken action to stop it that’s after Have you seen the shocking video of a
woman in Paris being hit in the face by a man just because she told him to stop
harassing her. The CCTV footage from last week shows 22 year old Marie Laguerre
walking past a cafe at the same time as a bearded man.
She said that he made obscene and degrading comments to her so she told
him to shut up. Moments later he picked up an ashtray and hurled it at her
before going back to Marie and slapping her across the face. The video’s been
watched more than a million times and has caused outrage in France. The
government already had plans in place to introduce on-the-spot fines for street
harassment from the Autumn. Have you objected to somebody wolf-whistling you
or making lewd comments about you. Were you worried that the person you were
standing up too could turn violent? You can give us a call on 08000 288 291
or email [email protected] In a moment we’ll speak to Grace Campbell the
writer and filmmaker she’s objected to harassment in the past
but first of all let’s find out more about this story from the BBC’s Paris
correspondent Hugh Schofield. Hugh, gosh I have seen it, it is really very shocking
to watch isn’t it? It is indeed very shocking to watch and I’ll describe it
for those haven’t seen it, it shows, it’s a security camera so it’s silent, and at a sort of funny angle but you see in the back of the picture two people
walking past each other and you think well nothing odd about that but
obviously there is some exchange it’s a man and a woman young man a young woman
there’s some exchange because she turns around and says something back to him
and then we see the man disappearing off to the right of the screen and he
suddenly happens we now know that he flings a ashtray at her and then she’s
obviously settling back to him again and he comes all around and then he it’s
just off screen but you see the sort of effect of it you can see him hitting her
on the head or slapping her on the head and we know from her testimony because
you know you know you need her to explain what’s happened what as they
crossed at the beginning he said something very abusive sexually to her,
she answered back saying in French “Ta gueule” meaning you know in no
uncertain terms go away, “Shut up” and that’s what
angers him. He then reacts to her telling him to shut up and the rest
follows. It is an extremely shocking video and of course the
point that she’s trying to make by publicizing it is that this is the sort
of thing that it happens more often than we think or that people think man it’s
been caught on video but that’s pretty rare rare rare event and it needs to be
seen so that people realize what people what what young women like that are having
put up with. I mean she says various things that are quite interesting one is
that when she said this to him she wasn’t really saying it to him she was
more saying it under her breath so she wasn’t being confrontational really she
said she was surprised he even heard it that’s that I mean she wasn’t kind of
you know all guns blazing attacking him she was just saying under her breath you
know why don’t you just well it the way one does in the way in the way that one
does when something horrible happens you don’t sort of go up to them and then
sort of pick a fight you just say I’ll get out of my face you know just under
your breath but but of it whatever it was that which triggered in him this
macho male this reaction of utter you know kind of anti feminine you know this
woman’s dead to talk back to me I mean no it’s it’s a blatantly awful and that
that you could you can’t help but just get very cross when you’re watching
I mean what what what’s interesting is I suppose it was also when you mentioned
there that you know France is bring in these new rules about verbal harassment
or but of course I mean that in a way that’s totally irrelevant I mean what
happened here this falls under the law already I mean the man attacks her this is
illegal he needs to be caught and he needs to be you know you know but
punished for what he did and that the law which will come in is sort of well
and in a way it’s much more tendentious or arguable whether it’s worthwhile
because it you know it deals with you know just abuse but I mean how really
how realistic is that people are gonna be caught doing that I mean it’s I don’t
know anyway it’s a big debate about that another element that’s interesting I
think about this horrible story is that that actually Marie Legare goes home she
doesn’t stay and fight she goes home after he’s hit her so hard on the head
then she thinks to herself well hang on a minute
wait a second this was a public place there were loads
of witnesses and she goes back she collects witness statements and there
turns out to be this CCTV which we’ve all now seen and I hope lots of lovely
listeners have a look at it as well just to see what we’re talking about and so
she kind of corrects her initial her initial reaction which is simply to
hunker down in her home thinking oh my god you know somebody who said something
abusive to me it’s now hit me you know she does that you know take action do
you feel that she’s become something of a hero or indeed heroine in France as a
result of this oh I think so yeah I mean you know in these days we live in in the
world of sort of three-day wonders and you know in a week from now we’ll be
forgotten but right now certainly she’s seeping no I mean because she’s been
very upfront about it as as you say that’s exactly what’s happened she went
she went home and again as you would you feel totalling shocks and you don’t know
how to react and then you go home and you collect yourself the sort of your
your your mood settles anything hang on a sec you know I go and that’s a she
comes straight back and and of course everyone wants to help her and and it’s
the owner of the cafe who gives her the CCTV footage and she wouldn’t have known
it was there but that and then she’s been in the media a lot she’s given
interviews left right and centre to talk about it so yes she has machine she’s
very much being in the eye of the country and of course everyone is giving
her you know utmost support her assailant is still not being caught even
though looks as though his face is pretty clearly visible on the film I’m
sure it won’t be long till he’s found it’s it’s you know he’s got a very
distinctive long ish black hair somebody will know who it is and I’m sure it
won’t be long Hugh thank you very much I’m listening to this is Grace Campbell
the writer and filmmaker grace I mean you’ve seen this footage what was your
reaction to it I mean it’s it’s horrible it’s horrible
and I can’t say that I’ve ever experienced something as awful as that
but I think what it shows is that’s the reason why a lot of the time women don’t
stand up to people who are doing things like that’s them because they fear that
that’s exactly what will happen to them and that girl
so amazing because she did and then the man felt insulted or whatever and then
punished her for it which is just so classic it’s like he’s most women at
some point I’m experienced in some way you know street harassment and then
loads of times when I’ve stood up to whoever it is they’ve been turned around
and been like oh well you’re ugly anyway I totally fancy you and then it’s a kind
of double insult because once you’ve rejected them they then try and reject
you and make you feel less of a person so I think when like you know watching
that I was just like wow baby fur but also that’s so horrible that that is
kind of what happens to women if they stand up to men who do that to them I
mean you’re a very similar age to Marilla gasps and she says that on the
day that happened it had happened already to her several times that day it
wasn’t the first time that week or even the first time that day it’s a regular
part of life do you find that they’re being harassed in the street whether
it’s being wolf whistle door being you know give address some horrible remarks
you that’s offensive does that happen to regularly every time I went outside I
would experience fear us but maybe times have changed slightly since then I’m 24
now but it definitely does have I mean just a few weeks ago I was followed home
after getting off the bus by a guy in a you know it’s like midnight I was
walking through where I live in North London and I was really really scared
this guy was very close to me kind of making weird noises and I had to call up
my friend and then sort pretend I was going into a house where I wasn’t you
know this is something that women you know I know we’ve been talking about so
this is something that women are conferences regularly and I do think
that more needs to be Donna I know it’s difficult to dip in you know finds for
people that do this we kind of need to be doing more to punish people there
will be some people listening Grace on quite saw some gentlemen who are
thinking but listen you know provided you’re polite and you’re not obscene
this is a perfectly legitimate way of a man showing appreciation to a woman
whether he gives her a whistle or whether he says oh darling you know
you’re looking gorgeous today whatever it is that it’s
not always hostile and there shouldn’t always be a reaction of fury and anger
and hurt really it’s just a compliment and even Julie Cooper the novelist said
only the other day and she very much wished mrs. being wolf whistled she used
to love it she took it as a compliment what would you say to those people two
things I mean firstly it doesn’t make me feel
flattered when it happens to me on the street it makes me feel uncomfortable
and actually quite gross so I would say to people that there are better ways to
get a woman’s attention in the public space and wolf-whistle catechol that
then secondly I don’t I think there are better ways oh that’s it I think you can
tell when someone is uncomfortable with what you’re doing to them I think
they’re all human you can pick up on other people’s emotions and we can sense
whether or not a woman is comfortable with what we’re doing to them and stop
and that’s the line like men that say that and do you think that it’s just a
form of flattery like you can tell when someone if the comfort one is walking
away and is feeling embarrassed or ashamed on the street and that’s one you
need to stop and realize that it’s not your plate and I’m speaking to you right
now you’re in France do you notice any difference in the way in which Frenchmen
behave towards women and and British men behave towards women was it much the
same way well I mean I’ve lived in Paris when I was 19 at the time and I must say
I grew up in London none of those Paris I can’t say notes
it’s a huge difference like the spaces are full of people and half of the
population are men and some of those meta Knights do this so I don’t say I
don’t think it’s worse in France if I’m honest but it definitely is life and you
get you know in public spaces that’s the thing it’s like public a little hard to
hear great so I’m gonna say thank you there and and ask you lovely listener
whether you you have seen this footage what you make of it whether you feel
aggrieved and affronted and insulted and maybe even nervous and worried when your
wolf whistle – when when when people shout comments at you in the street or
whether like judy cooper you remember it as a compliment in you wish
it was still going on the number eight thousand 288 or Michael from Hampshire
says I would never wolf whistle but I find women do not take offense providing
whatever is said is a genuine compliment said politely
and without innuendo or strings weekday mornings for 6:30
from organized Chris Evans breakfast show it’s time Tim well good morning cam
Baker’s untundi back here with us at balls
I’m a retired former professional dancer also singing alive I want to join all say can it be ever had this pretty cool
never ask me if you are asked who would you like to dance the Chris Evans
breakfast show and pop is on the line in Lincoln good
afternoon poppy hi hi you’re a university student yes I am and so what
happened to you the other day or fairly recently and it was actually a couple of
months ago and they ended up for the call to the police really so what
happened yeah and I work for a cake store and I was clearing up and we’ve
got these plastic sheets the food hygiene yeah lifting them up and folding
them and this man approached me bearing in mind I’m not even 20 and he was in
his late fifties maybe 60s it’s a little bit intimidating already and he came up
to me and said cause he’s a fantastic naked in my bed Repton like wrapped in
that yuck so I just right yeah I just said that’s disgusting how can you talk
to somebody like that so he looked at his friend and then looked back at me
and said yeah you’re right she would look better in a body bag my goodness so
tell me about the bit where the police are called so I left work and encaged
security and began walking back to my student house and they followed me
they’d waited outside of the shopping center and actually followed me back to
my flat so I had to call the security campus and then I had to call the police
as well I just did not feel safe how frightening was it did you feel that
they really had sort of malign intent that they were going to try to to harm
you or attack only yeah they were shouting after me and I kept trying to
walk in between like groups of people so they couldn’t see me but they followed
me pretty much like a mile maybe a mile and a half all the way back to my flat
this is a couple of men in their late fifties and you’re not even talking
whether it should be actually ashamed of themselves what happened with the police
in the end did they did they find another call
no I’m just taking a report and they didn’t do anything because nobody else
would record any of these from them right so what would you say – I can’t
believe it but to anyone who was thinking oh well that man only just
thought you were pretty and wanted to come and say so you know he didn’t mean
anything by it and you offended his masculinity or something of that kind
what would you say to them there’s a difference between coming up to somebody
and saying call you really nice today I have a beautiful
smile Lord your hair looks nice your clothes are nice and then saying that
you look good naked in somebody’s bed and absolutely completely not the
difference and if I if you want to go and compliment somebody just compliment
them and something minutes some people will say don’t compliment them if you
want to keep your thoughts to yourself it’s you know you shouldn’t burden a
total stranger with your thoughts you think they look pretty well enjoy it but
you don’t have to say so to them very well listen I hope you’re alright and
you’ve you’ve recovered from them thanks very much for calling and telling us
about it thank you let’s go to Janine Janine Xin Hebden Bridge with a very
different perspective really hi Janine good afternoon
alright thank you you’re going back 18 years ago and you remember vividly I was
quite heavily pregnant with my firstborn and I work I was working there at the
time and I was just walking back from my lunch and there were two builders
working and one of the builders obviously we thought I was a bit kind of coworkers said she’s pregnant and he
turn around and they said yes but she’s lovely she’s beautiful I like just wow
thank you the biggest smile on my face because the last thing you feel is
beautiful when you’re trying to walk down the high street in the heat and it
really made my day smile and maybe it was nice because a
what he said was a charming thing not a sort of lewd or insulting thing and he
didn’t seem to want to control your intimidate you he just thought you were
beautiful and maybe it’s sort of the sincerity was the thing that made it
nice maybe authority afterwards because at the beginning I kind of thought oh
really but when what he said I just thought
thank you so much for telling us about it that memory lingers eighteen years
and we’re calling this caller Sarah in Oswestry hi Sarah good afternoon to you
I think you know you you weren’t attacked by someone but you had a quite
similar to the experience in France by Marie Leggett recently what happened it
sounds like it I was just walking down the street and there was a couple of
builders working on a shop form and they wolf-whistle them and said tell her
darling look gorgeous come over get a case mmm which obviously I didn’t
respond oh come on don’t ignore us and then when I just carried on ignoring
them they turn on the Comi of fats yes so if you care very abusive at that
point and you know so when people say oh you know it’s compliment if there’s
something behind it where they want something in return you don’t give it
then that conversation can soon become very abusive yes it swiftly turns from
something that’s sort of pseudo complimentary to something really quite
frightening yeah because there was no response from
me and they didn’t like that so then I get the insults and that has affected me
because I was upset went home to my husband and I cried I got hang-ups about
my opinions anyway and he’s kind of but not my confidence going out really
enough to make you feel that you wouldn’t want to leave that house want
to leave but I’m very aware now when I see groups of men or men looking it’s
not complimentary you’d like the other lady said that was on earlier it’s how
you receive it and the person receiving it isn’t comfortable they don’t know
what kind of issues you’ve got you don’t want compasses and people of God’s you
shouldn’t be inviting a conversation my view well thank you very much for that
cool thank you so I lament the fact that wolf-whistling is now no longer
acceptable I quite used to enjoy being wolf-whistle
doubt in my twenties and used to regard it is a bit of banter which made us all
smile Lauren Durham I don’t think men should always be discouraged from giving
compliments to women I’ve had bad experiences myself once in Paris I felt
uncomfortable when a man started taking pictures of me however we shouldn’t are
all men with the same brush because in the right context a compliment is a real
confidence boost Christine says I hated being wolf-whistle doubt when I was
young and used to cringe with embarrassment then in my late twenties I
adopted a different approach I’d stop I’d look directly at the person and
start calling or signaling back they soon realized I was taking the rise it
took a bit of guts but I actually enjoyed turning the tables on the morons
rachel says I’m a trans woman and I’m always flattered when I get a wolf
whistle it shows that people appreciate how I look however
I get nervous that the person who whistled may then realize he’s whistled
as a trans woman and react badly it really is a double-edged sword and in in
Northampton says if a woman’s made the effort I think it’s a guy’s duty to tell
us she looks nice there is a way of doing say which is respectful and Julie
from Wigan says I’m 52 and while walking down the street at the weekend had rude
and disgusting gestures made towards me by three adult men who all seemed to be
in their 30s I muttered under my breath but was too afraid to actually respond
back one man whistling is not threatening but when a pack of men wolf
whistle it really is scary it’s going to be one spectacular day BBC Radio 2 live
in Hyde we under words and Lenny Kravitz
BBC Radio 2 live in Hyde Park September 2 buy your tickets by going to the BBC
Radio 2 website CBC no Khadija K / radio 2 what happened
to Charlie Brown on a December 19 2015 is the stuff of nightmares she’d got to
know a man called Jack Shepard through the online dating website OkCupid and
that night was their first date they went for a meal in the shard skyscraper
in London where they shared a couple of bottles of wine before heading back to
his houseboat on the River Thames later the pair headed out in a speedboat that
Shepard owned he bought it in his own words to pull women the court heard that
the boat was badly maintained it had poor and sloppy steering and a partially
opaque windscreen Shepard was also speeding as they headed along the Thames
towards the houses of parliament he was doing 30 knots that’s nearly 35 miles an
hour well above the 12 not limit for that part of the river Shepard told the
court he let Charlie take over the steering for a thrill but the boat
crashed and capsized it’s thought that it hit a floating piece of timber he
survived by clinging to the hull of the upturned boat Charlie was not so lucky
she was found in the water close by and taken to hospital but later pronounced
dead a post-mortem examination found that she had died from cold water
immersion Shepard was last week found guilty of manslaughter by gross
negligence and sentenced to six years in prison he is however on the run they
didn’t attend the trial although he was in contact with his legal team
throughout there’s now an international manhunt to find him it’s hard to imagine
how difficult the last few weeks have been for Charlie’s friends and family
and I’m very grateful indeed that Charlie’s parents Roz Wiccans and Graham
brown have joined me in the studio I mean you know you’ve had to sit there
and listen to me telling that story you’ve had to sit in court and hear it
again and again and again and I think it must be just unimaginably painful for
you to be made to relive what happened on that night it domine for us it’s been
two and a half years of ongoing agony everyone knows about it now who
ooh read the news or listen to news but it’s been ongoing and if why the way I
see is I don’t want Charlotte’s theft to be in vain I want I want people to know
also the fact that there is I mean there is no legislation for the waterways and
also on the other fact is she’d never you be on the speed but before she’d
never even been on a bike a motorbike you know we wasn’t that sort of family
and then when you sat down the first thing that you to said to me and and I
should just say you’re divorced but you bought solid up together obviously and
and the first thing you said was she wasn’t a risk-taker she wasn’t that kind
of a girl she wasn’t someone reckless she wasn’t someone who just plunged in
in life very very much the opposite yeah very well educated went to university
you know gained a very good degree had got a very good job and just got
promotion within a job she she had everything to live for and she would
never have gone out that night and he persuaded her through he’s you know
charms presumably although we didn’t know grammar I didn’t know that his she
was going out that no I know I’m convinced that when she went out she
would have had no idea that Jack Shepard would have in effect on not to 30 knots
in five seconds which apparently this speedboat was capable of she would have
no idea of the danger she it was it’s just absolutely surreal that this has
happened well I have I’m the mother of two daughters and I’ve seen this not
just through their eyes but actually also my own and you know that you know
she’s she’s she’s whisked off for this highly glamorous dinner and people who
are not familiar with the chard you know it’s a very expensive restaurant it’s a
very glamorous location and he and he spends a great deal of money on this
dinner for her turns out he lives on a houseboat which makes me think that she
would have thought well he’s very familiar with boats he’s a guy that’s
you know he’s he’s he has expertise in this area and then he says to her you
know let’s go for a spin in this feed bed on the Thames I can’t think of many
women or girls who wouldn’t have thought that sounded exciting and glamorous oh
my god absolutely not and as we’ve just said she wasn’t a risk
taker you know she was a family girl mmm
and what happened that night completely devastated their family and to watch my
other two daughters have to deal with therefore their sister it’s so
heartbreaking I mean it’s obviously agonizing for you and I believe that as
you say that Charlotte was not a risk-taker and she was in phone contact
with her sister absolutely because she knows she knew perfectly well that you
know she didn’t really know this guy was the first date she wanted to be safe
that was one of her main priorities I mean that was in court I mean the
conversation on their group was actually in court and used and one of the last
things she said was I’m sure it’s safe yes that was the message to our middle
daughter Katie I’m sure it’s a so she wasn’t fleeing caution to the winds far
from it she thought she was with somebody who knew what he was doing yes
it turns out he knew what he was doing but his purpose was not safely driving a
speedboat his purpose was seducing as many women absolutely could
and and meant when I say many many came forward to say so yes yes I mean there
was evidence that there was there was one specifically young lady who would
like to thank I don’t want to say her name and she knows who she is she gave
she was she was a witness and she was in the dock and I’d like to thank her
personally also I’d like to thank all the ones who did come forward that
witnesses there was many that saw the boat that night speeding I’d like to
thank them and I’d like to thank the jewelry and on the back of that I’d also
like to thank the Metropolitan Police further outstanding work especially
Chris and Gavin they know where they are going the floo floo officer has been
outstanding he has kept us up-to-date throughout and he has been what I
couldn’t done it without them for the honest I mean this is you know an
extraordinary story and it’s such a terrible kind of merging of accident and
an intent and everything else it’s just just horrible but but of course one of
the key factors here is that that the perpetrator wasn’t in court now that the
sentence was meted out in his absence and that he still hasn’t been found and
that is quite crucial to this I mean we had absolutely no idea that
Shepard was not going to attend his trial he had attended his pretrial
hearings and on the morning bear in mind this rather said it was two and a half
years to get this to court and to be told by the place on the first day of
the trial that Jack Shepard is absent was absolutely devastating because we’ve
never actually heard an account of what happened to our daughter we were we we
think we deserved to hear him stand in the dock and give an explanation of what
happened so when he wasn’t here it was quite distressing thankfully the judge
said that the that the trial cooker hit in his absence which which he did and we
were very pleased with that but it is obviously among all the other feelings
are experiencing the most overwhelmingly frustrating feeling to know that he’s
still not there and he’s not serving his sentence and and also that people must
know where he is well I’ll take this opportunity to make an appeal I I would
ask anybody who knows of Jack Shepard his friends his family or anyone who
sees him to examine their conscience and their loyalties and to get in touch with
the police or Crimestoppers there is a national paper has made a reward before
his return to justice and I you know it’s the right thing is actually I was
listening to his chair he finds show on Friday and he said something which
resonated with me said I don’t know what it’s like to be a fugitive if it doesn’t
sound much fun to me well that’s what Jack Shepard is he is a fugitive he is
looking over his shoulder so I just hope that Jack gets this message and does the
honorable thing and turns himself in to the police I mean we know there’s an
international manhunt for him do you have any cause to believe he’s in this
country or do you have any indication he might be abroad or do you just not know
we don’t really know but there was indication that was said yesterday
through Kris there’s the Detective Sergeant who’s dealing there is a trial
there he did go abroad as he might be abroad earlier on this year but we don’t
know one of the things you said when you
first sat down here was you know you want there to be some legacy you want
there to be some some change made well this is we get this is absolutely where
were the last two and a half years this is the when we found out there is no
legislation we were as a family totally shocked that anyone can speed they don’t
have to wear life jackets they can drink alcohol excess alcohol there’s no safety
training there’s no MOT type there’s no insurance I keep thinking you know I
just described the boat poor and sloppy steering a partially a Paik windscreen
it’s if you were getting into a car like that you’d sort of know it wouldn’t you
it would look like an old bagging it see what makes it important to make the
distinction between commercial and private yes the laws all exist so for
commercial but not for private boat users and it’s an after marching as a
lot of laws that come in but they’ve they forgot to add the private aspect we
were shocked you don’t need insurance you don’t need
a license you the basic requirements which you need in a car just do not
exist for a speedboat and it’s just truly shocking for us when we found this
hour which is partly why took two and a half years to get it to call and why the
charge of manslaughter with gross negligence had to be used because there
was no effective legislation to cover this incident extraordinary was no
precedent for this they didn’t know what how to even apply the law to it now
insofar as the law existed my goodness so so my appeal is to to start
campaigning with the support the RNLI which I’ve already got you know we’ve
I’ve had a relationship with them in the last two years and to start campaigning
for this legislation so I’m appealing to anyone and would like to help I’m
appealing to MPs anyone who will care to assist us for this because perfectly
honest I’m not I’m not gonna let it drop I’m into that I’m in for the long haul
now I understand why I think absolutely anyone with a daughter can understand
and any woman really can understand maybe some men to that the allure of a
nighttime boat ride very fast on the Thames would be something that you
wouldn’t be able to resist but you’d believe
that all that legislation was already in place you wouldn’t think shit you were
taking your life in your hands would you she wouldn’t have known she’d never been
enough speedboat she’d she was just definitely would not
have known it had gone not to us what Grammer said not to 30 knots in six
seconds each she would never have known that was going to happen and also we
don’t as we said before we just don’t know if she was driving if she wasn’t
driving there’s no evidence of anything they you know they think it might have
been a log but we don’t know and we literally we don’t know anything really
for factual and do you feel that if Jack Shephard were to be found and were to be
brought to book and in the doctor he would give her you know a believable not
reliable testimony not doesn’t strike me that he’s that kind of person doesn’t
know which leaves us feeling slightly cheated from the fact that he didn’t
attend his trial yeah you know we put the part of the healing process is
knowing what happened and we will never know for sure because he was absent
which is quite distressing yes but you know he all comes back to the central
point you know there was a number of aggravating factors to this gross
negligence he took her out on the night in the middle of winter didn’t offer a
life jacket for speeding in a faulty boat apparently they were doing I’ve
never heard this term before so forgive me but they were doing doughnuts do a
figure of eights and speed in and absolutely sure enough and unfortunately
our beautiful daughter we’ve lost her because of this reckless negligent
careless thoughtless man I mean Italy utterly heartbreaking just to hear you
tell the story and have to tell it and have to tell it over and over and
grapple with it again and again but you know I’m conscious that on the radio on
the television the newspaper you hear about people who’ve lost children and
it’s somehow you hear about it so often it it becomes another story but for you
it’s not a story for your family it’s not a story this is your life
is your your life and and I can feel that the sort of void and the chasm
where she used to be it’s just it’s unbearably hard for you it is it was
immensely heartbreaking and for me you know as a mum yes I’m I’m gonna grieve a
lifetime and I there’s no moving on for me there’s no getting over it isn’t it
simply won’t I don’t see how you could no definitely not
I really don’t well I can’t thank you enough for coming in and telling us
about it I can see how much you wish that this level of suffering would never
happen to another family and if anybody does know where Jack Shephard is let’s
hope they contact us here on the BBC the number 0 8,000 to 88 to 91 thank you so
much and thank you I know all I can do is just wish you well Godspeed I don’t
know what else to say you’re welcome thank you and on the phone there’s Mike
in Barnstable hello Mike afternoon I’m alright thank you and it was extremely
moving an upsetting wasn’t it to hear that mom and dad talking about you yeah
absolutely and you know just like to say offer my sincere condolences to the
parents of that poor young girl but I was just saying to you researcher there
about you know we lived in Australia for a little while a few years ago and the
boat laws over there are far different to this country in that the new you are
restricted on what speed you can travel that on the water for a start and if you
wanted to go I think its memory serves if it was over 10 knots then you had to
take a test and while I was working over there because part of my job as a was as
a marine engineer I had to obviously test drive boats after their repairs and
etc and so I had to go and take effective ly a boat test you know to to
enable me to be safe on the water I knew what I was doing and all this sort of
thing and it just amazed as many why they don’t have a similar thing in this
mean you had to have the whole panoply of kit there didn’t you the lifejackets
the – absolutely yeah I mean that you know the the River police were were very
prominent you know they were constantly sort of surveying the waters up and down
and if they saw a group of lads in a boat you know sort of acting like
hooligans and they would very promptly pour them over
and if they didn’t have the the relevant kit on board then they’ll be towed back
to shore yes well it seems to be and normally that Charlotte’s parents really
do hope moonlight shadow coming up after the news we’re looking for calls from
you all those of us who’ve squandered all those hours on love Island you tell
us what we should and could have been doing instead all those magical wondrous
and splendid experiences that we missed what should we have been doing oh 8,000
to 88 to 91 this is BBC Radio 2 online on digital radio and on 88 to 91 fm BBC news out one o’clock this is Tom
Harrigan a former British soldier who fought against the Islamic state group
in Syria has had terror charges against him dropped the suicide bomber who
attacked the Manchester Arena last year had previously been rescued from Libya
by the wrong Navy and the ocean race of Tony bulla Moore who famously survived
for four days after his yacht capsized has died a former British soldier who
was due to go on trial accused of attending terrorist training camps has
had the charges against him dropped Jim Matthews who’s 43 and from East London
had travelled to Syria to join Kurdish militia fighting against the Islamic
state group he’s believed to have been the first person in Britain to be
charged for assisting a group already helped by the UK government’s Tom
Burrage reports from the Old Bailey Jim Matthews has never denied that he fought
for the Kurdish YPG forces in Syria against the so-called Islamic state but
earlier this year the Metropolitan Police charged him with allegedly
attending terrorist training camps in Syria and Iraq today was claimed that
new undisclosed evidence had come to light and the case against mr. Matthews
suddenly collapsed mr. Matthews accused the government of
making a politically calculated decision to bring charges against him he asked
whether relations with and armed sales to Turkey which deems the YPG to be a
terrorist group was the real reason he was prosecuted
it’s emerged that the man who bombed the Manchester Arena last year was rescued
from the Civil War in Libya by the wrong Navy Salman Abadi and more than a
hundred other British nationals boarded the survey ship HMS Enterprise in
Tripoli in 2014 22 people were killed when a body detonated a homemade suicide
vest at the end of an ariana grande concert last year senior managers Royal
Bank of Scotland won’t face any action over the way a controversial unit
treated small firms RBS his global restructuring group has been accused of
harming struggling companies by imposing higher fees and interest rates
Simon Gompertz reports businesses which fell into the hands of RBS is now
notorious grg unit during the financial crisis might have hoped that they had
the same consumer protections they were individual bank customers but
they were wrong the financial conduct authority says it didn’t regulate
business lending so even though its own investigations show RBS had a conflict
of interest between helping troubled firms and making money out of them and
didn’t recognize the emotional stress on customers who lost their livelihoods and
their homes it doesn’t have the power to impose financial penalties on the bank
or its managers the FCA can ban individuals from financial work but it
believes it wouldn’t succeed in proving that they were dishonest or incompetent
the presidents of the board of jet pcs of British Jews has called on labor to
expel an ally of Jeremy Corbyn who condemned some members of the Jewish
community as Trump fanatics Murray van der Zil described Peter Wilson’s
comments as a disgusting rant it’s understood that he has since apologized
an investigation by the BBC’s victoria derbyshire program has found that women
in England are illegally taking abortion pills at home after buying them over the
Internet Scotland and Wales allow women to use
the pills at home but in England they must be taken at a hospital or clinic
the Labour backbencher Diana Johnson is one of 50 MPs who’ve written to the
health secretary Matt Hancock urging him to change the rules English women are
not being afforded the same dignity the same woman centered health care that we
all want to see for these women and we want him to do something about it so I’m
hopeful I raised it with him personally at the Health Select Committee where he
appeared before us just last week and I think he understands this is an issue he
needs to address more than a hundred and fifty ryanair flight serving Stansted
Airport has been canceled or delays due to thunderstorms in the South East of
England earlier passengers have reported long queues a lack of information and
sitting on planes that haven’t moved for several hours the airport’s is advising
people to check the status of their flight before traveling the former
round-the-world sailor Tony bulla Moore has died at the age of 79 he was at the
center of a famous rescue more than 20 years ago after his yacht capsized
during a race here’s John K it was January 1997 when Tony bulla Moore made
international headlines he was taking part in the von de globe
round the world solo yacht race when his boat capsized in the Antarctic Ocean
more than a thousand miles from Australia many feared the worst
but he found an air pocket in the upturned hull and after four days was
rescued by a passing Australian royal naval ship the Queen praised Tony bulla
Moore’s extraordinary feat of survival he said it was down to chocolate water
and sheer determination in the city a short time ago the 100 share index was
up 51 points at 7,752 and the weather forecast much of England and
Wales staying dry this afternoon with warm sunny spells cloud and rain
arriving across Northern Ireland and Scotland later on though top
temperatures of 23 Celsius in London 21 in Cardiff 18 in Belfast and 17 in
Edinburgh that’s the BBC news at five past one Welcome back, Vanessa sitting in for
Jeremy. Coming up – The woman who quit the Jehovah’s Witnesses. What happened to her next? There’s Cher making Fernando her own, a bit
of a long wait to see her in the film but it is well worth it. For many of us
our interactions with Jehovah’s Witnesses will come on the street or the
doorstep as followers give out leaflets and magazines trying to recruit new
members to their faith. But our next guest was a member of that faith for
almost 20 years however she decided to leave and was shunned by members of her
own family who remained Jehovah’s Witnesses. There are more than a hundred
thousand Jehovah’s Witnesses in the UK they believe Humanity is in its last
days and that the final battle between good and evil will happen soon. They
claim that 144,000 faithful Christians will go to
heaven. The official website of the Jehovah’s Witnesses states the members
who choose to stop following the religion are not shunned but those who
break the Bible’s code could be shunned or disfellowshipped. It claims family
members who remained Jehovah’s Witnesses can maintain normal,
affectionate relationships with their loved ones even if they’re no longer
part of the church. Or maybe you were a Jehovah’s Witness. If you were, have you
seen people being shunned after leaving the church? You could give us a call on
08000 288 291 and we’re asking this today because one of our listeners got
in touch with us to tell us how she’s been shunned by her son and his family
after she stopped believing. We’re gonna call her ‘Ruby’ but it’s not her real name
and she’s on the line in our studio in Liverpool. Ruby hello good afternoon to
you. Good afternoon Vanessa. How long were you a Jehovah’s Witness? From 1975 to
1993. And what was it that attracted you to the faith in the first place? I had
two little girls who were coming up to the Communion and I wanted to read them
Bible stories and two ladies called the book of Bible stories which is perfect for
what I was looking for, and at the time was in a very bad marriage and the
Catholic Church was getting bad press. So I was delighted with this little book
and I read it to the girls to the church to my three children and there were two
ladies came back the next week and the next week and came back every week
asking me if had questions and of course I had questions because I said well
there are mistakes in the book so that was how I started – they started a
study with me. And so by this time that you’re finding
them very sympathetic and empathetic and providing you with the stories you wanted
to tell your children and you become sort of more and more I suppose you
could say enmeshed in the faith, in the religion. Yes yeah, when I went to the [kingdom] hall
they greeted me with love they love bombed me. Mm-hmm. They told me they were one big happy
family no matter where one went in the world, they’d take into their home and
treat you as family and they’re there to help one help the widows and orphans and anyway when I got divorced and i asked them for help they said, Oh no your ex-husband
should do it. Oh really. My ex-husband didn’t do it went to use
with me he’s not going to do it now that we’re divorced. But you didn’t leave the
church when they said no. No I didn’t, no. I thought well and they said well
you’re a divorced woman us two brothers can’t go into your house you
know. Mmm. So I said No I’ll give you the key and
I’ll go out I’ll go to my friend’s house. Oh no, No, they wouldn’t have it.
Meanwhile you you you became baptized into the Jehovah’s Witnesses in March
1975 and you’ve been told that in 1975 Armageddon was coming it was going to be
the end of our days as we know them. Yes. And then of course that’s not what happened
and you did question, you did ask about it. Yes Armageddon was supposed to come
in the Autumn of ’75 there was a special talk given, that around the first of
October and of course it didn’t come and then there was a talk given that it’s
like waiting for a person from off a train. If they’re not on that train they
could be on the next train so you keep waiting. Nobody knows the day or the
hour we’re told, but Armageddon didn’t come in ’75 or ’76 and I got divorced,
moved house, this is 1980 and then I got a job and the British American Tobacco
Company because I had a mortgage to pay and had three children to feed. Yes. That
was disapproved of, there was a public special needs talk given saying, Does
Jehovah approve of our work, do we work in munitions or do we work in drugs or
tobacco or the like. And that was directed at me and I felt very marginalized. And
you say that you know you felt that they really disagree with you working at all
and that actually they were monopolizing more and more of your time, there were
more and more meetings and meetings and you say that you looked around at
meetings and you’d see lots of children there and you would you’re thinking but
why aren’t they in bed or why aren’t they doing their homework and so you
didn’t include your children in the same way that other people did.?
No because children would be out at ten o’clock at night at meetings
sleeping under the chairs and then they’ve got to get up for school in the
morning, well I felt that it was wrong, and I lived quite a distance from the hall and
the dark nights I felt unsafe getting home. So 18 years along your
affiliation with the church you finally decided to leave, it must have
been something major to make you break that kind of connection. Yes because i
was a single woman single sister i had no friends but then I made friends with
another single sister and we used to socialize together now single sisters
aren’t supposed to enjoy life we’re supposed to sit at home study in the
watchtower or we used to go out go for meals go to the theatre I go for a drink
so just go out generally and have a good time and just enjoy, we were enjoying
life. Anyway my ex-husband got married again and he married a [Jehovah’s] witness lady
and I felt upset over that, that he did, he was the one that didn’t, he was a bad
husband, he didn’t look after me or the children
yet he was accepted and there was me getting marginalized and my work and
everything was in contempt. Were you told off for going out and having a drink and having a meal and having fun? No, they didn’t know, nobody, no we’re not supposed to do it, none
of the brothers knew about it but this sister and I had a disagreement
over something and we fell out so we weren’t sitting together in the hall
and the brothers noticed this and they took us into the back room, and when you
get taken into the back room it’s like being taken to the headmasters office.
You know, everyone knows you being up to no good.
Yes. Well the sister said that I was upset because my ex-husband got married
again. Well that wasn’t the real reason why we fell out. And they started
grilling me ‘What happened? what’s wrong Ruby what’s wrong? So I wouldn’t say a
word to them, I sat there in silence. And kept us there for over an hour and
these three brothers that I loved and respected,
I saw them change from three loving men into three demons. Why do you call them
demons what did they do.? They look like, they became like demons they’re so angry
because I wouldn’t speak. I had the upper hand of them. And then you decided enough
was enough. Yes I thought there’s no love here, it’s the
very same as the Catholic Church, they profess to have love, professed to have
the truth. But no, they opened the door and it was pitch black outside and not one
of them said, Are you Okay getting home Ruby, shall we get a taxi for you?
No. I could have been raped or murdered that night. And they didn’t seem to care. Meanwhile your son – one of your sons had
become one of the church elders and there you are you can walked out, you’ve
said right I don’t want to be a Jehovah’s Witness anymore and you never
did go back. He is very much a part of that faith and a part of the church isn’t
he. And you did at first see him after you left, but since then the whole thing
has just really fallen apart your relationship what do you think’s
happened? Well when he got married, he and his wife, they had a study
and he was made an elder very quickly. I met my partner my present
partner in August 2011 and introduced him to my family and immediately the
stunning started. When you when you say ‘the shunning’ is that a verb of the word
to shun that they use in the Jehovah’s Witnesses? because you don’t hear an awful lot of shunning going on in the
rest of the world do you, people don’t talk about shunning one another, but this is a known thing is it ‘to shun’.? It is but they deny it. Uh huh. They deny it.
they say they use the scriptures but Jesus never said to shun anyone!
It’s a, it comes from the [Watchtower] organization. And what was it like to be
shunned by your own son? It’s terrible, I went around and said to him, I
said, All I’m asking you is to check it out. Check out what you believe is true,
you know, I said because I checked it out on the internet, when the Ebola crisis
broke out I thought that was Armageddon because there are thousands of people
dying every day. And I thought if this comes in to Britain
this is Armageddon. So then I checked it, we’re not supposed to check
anything else on the internet and I was scared in case I get hit by a bolt of
lightning from heaven. Yes. But I was shocked at what I found.
I’ve read about money laundering. Yes. shunning, paedophilia. I mean I’ve got a
message here we asked the Jehovah’s Witnesses about this and this is what
they say those who were baptized as baptizes Jehovah’s Witnesses but no
longer preached to others perhaps even drifting away from association with
fellow believers are not shunned in fact we reach out to them and try to rekindle
their spiritual interest. No, that is not true.
Nobody’s ever called to me since I left in 1993. Nobody. No shepherd has ever
come out to bring this little lost sheep back. They also say they they don’t
automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin and
disfellowshipped individuals may attend our religious services if they wish. Well
I wasn’t disfellowshipped, I just stopped going. But my son is shunning me and
my daughter-in-law call me a fornicator. I said Why can’t I see my grandchildren?
and she says No I don’t want the mixing with fornicators, and my partner I we’re
married. Are you are you the only person you know who has been shunned
after leaving the Jehovah’s Witnesses? No there are thousands all over the world. But do you know them have you ever met them or spoken to them are you sure about this? Yes I’m in
touch with them on Facebook on the internet. And what are the
sorts of things they tell you? That how heartbreaking it is, family members can
die they won’t be told. My grandson got married I was the only person not
invited to the wedding. Babies are born they never see the baby.
Grandparents never see the grandchildren It’s happening all over the world.
And do you feel as if you made overtures to the elders or to the people that you
used to know within the Jehovah’s Witnesses, if you said, No I am shunned! and I can’t see my
son and I wasn’t invited to my grandchild wedding, would they speak to
you, would they entertain an audience with you, no? No they wouldn’t, no. They
just clam up. Would they invite you in or would they leave you on the doorstep?
I went around to see my son, he asked me to leave, he said Mother you’re
making us feel uncomfortable, you’ve got to go, didn’t even offer me a cup
of tea. Really and you say that the people are
in this similar situation all over the world. Yes many people commit suicide
because of it, there’s nothing left in life, your children and your
grandchildren are your life. I’m so sorry for this and you don’t feel that if
you went literally and knocked on the door of the church and you said, you know,
you were in my living room, you were telling me you would care for me and now
because I don’t have faith anymore and it’s not my fault, I didn’t mean to lose my faith. They deny it. They deny what they said. They denied that he ever said that 1975
was the year Armageddon would come and I’ve got books, they were told to get
rid of all the books get rid of the evidence. I’ve still got them books. And
so what are your feelings when you see, and we do see, well i see, I live
and work right in the centre of London and we see people giving out the
watchtower all the time they’re always wearing you know very smart suits and
very nice frocks and they hand out there with a big big smile and and what are
your thoughts about these people who do that? The witnesses themselves they’re
very good people they live by the Bible and they do not know what’s going on in
the organisation, they don’t, because they’re told not to check it out, they’re told ‘you
have the truth, no need to check it out’. Ruby thank you very much indeed for
talking to us even though you’ve told us a very sad story indeed and I wish you
well and I hope that in the future maybe you will repair your relationship with
your son and lovely listening. We’re taking your calls on this if you used to
be a Jehovah’s Witness, if you’re experiencing what Ruby is going through
now, a shunning, then you could give us a call. And if you’re not you could equally
well ring in and say no well that’s not what’s happened to me at all. The number
080000 288 291 or you can email [email protected]
me a River. James in Peterborough says I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness, I left
about 12 years ago. The elders felt that I didn’t respect their authority and
although I wasn’t shunned I haven’t spoken to my mother in about eight years
because of it. In my opinion it is a cult and there is a lot of thought control
involved. Louise from Cambridge says My friend was shunned by her own family and
the Jehovah’s Witnesses after she got pregnant by someone who was not in the
religion. Her children have grown up without their grandparents, aunts, uncles
and cousins and she’s had to navigate motherhood all by herself she’s doing
amazingly, good riddance! Ray, not his real name says, I am a Jehovah’s Witness. The
shunning process is very common, I have seen it firsthand. To leave the faith is
called to disassociate oneself, there will then follow a short announcement to the
congregation and this is a warning sign to all to have nothing further to do
with the person. And that’s from somebody who is a Jehovah’s Witness. Now Adrian in
Swindon says My family and I were Jehovah’s Witnesses for five years until
we fell out with the elders. As a religion it taught me to be less selfish
and ultimately it did save my marriage, there was no bad blood when we left the
religion. Cases of shunning must be for different personal reasons, it is not
something they encourage. And Catherine in Brighton says I’m an ex Jehovah’s
Witness I left at 17 as it was awful. My father
was an elder and my mother was very abusive to me. I went to the church I
told them what my mom did to me, they weren’t interested and ignored me. When I
left the organization they accused me of all sorts of things such as having sex
before marriage and Satan worship, Whether you’re hard at work, indulging in
some light insomnia or tiptoeing after a night out, I am live and at your
service from Midnight’s okay boys if I get a song stuck in my head I just play
it over and over and over over and over and over again and until i
hate it. My doctor’s has got the worst hold music. I tend to end up on hold there and
I will hang up going I’m not ill enough to wait through this. my wife well she sent
me this text going I bet you and I had to tend to a dog Humbert bottom two they
have not the answers of course no oj Borch
weeknights from midnight making me an awake a good thing And Keith’s on the line in Newcastle.
Hello Keith. Hallo Vanessa, How are you doing? Gosh, I’m fine, You were a Jehovah’s Witness for 50 years but you did leave! Yes, five-zero Yes I was, I was a missionary over in Spain. An elder,
ministerial servant, pioneer, gave talks at large assemblies, conventions, the lot. I
want to know what made you leave. Well would you believe it Vanessa, this is
really strange, it was the Jeremy Vine show. No I’m
amazed. What happened.? Yes, Jeremy was doing an interview with a witness who mentioned
that the Jehovah’s Witnesses were within the United Nations and were thrown out of it.
And I thought, No. So I went online to the United Nations, checked it out and there,
very clearly they were part of United Nations from 1991 to
October 2001 when they were disassociated bearing in mind that the Watchtower
organization said that the United Nations are going to be destroyed
because they’re a wild beast, and I just could not believe it. And that was it and
then I checked the teachings that they had, that the eyes were open then, and I
found that nearly 50% of the teachings were actually were made up, they couldn’t be verified by the bible. And here’s
the key thing, Were you shunned when you left.? Yes. Big style. You were! — I have a YouTube channel under my name Keith McAllister. If anyone
wants to see Jehovah’s Witnesses shunning someone, it was in Newcastle City
centre a couple of weeks ago, and it’s on video. Why what happened? I went
up to them to discuss a scripture and they told me to ‘Go away’. Now with this,
bearing in mind, the chap i spoke to has I’ve known him for 25 years. Refused to
talk to me, ‘Go away’, and then sent the other girl that was with him, sent her away. I was completely shunned.
And like ‘Ruby’ Keith we spoke to Ruby and she said she was the only person in the
entire family not invited to her son’s wedding and you had a similar thing when
your daughter got married. Yes. I didn’t even know until two years ago that she
actually got married. And so you’re being shunned actively even now.?
Oh yes, plus also four brothers and three sisters because there’s 8 of us. They’re all shunning me,
won’t talk to me, won’t answer emails, texts anything. Do you still feel you did
the right thing in leaving? Oh definitely because it is a cult, there is absolutely
no doubt about it. It is a cult. Keith Thank you very much. Let me go to
Jim. Jim’s in North Wales. Hallo Jim. You would disfellowshipped from the
Jehovah’s Witnesses. Yeah i was yeah. Um, do you want to tell us why? No all I can say
is that it’s a beautiful religion the people there are imperfect, they just trying
their best. Right. Nobody forced me into a baptism pool by gunpoint. Mmm. I wanted it.
Years later I was in a bad marriage and I wanted out and I broke the rules
and I paid full recompense for my error. And what is the full recompense? Being
disfellowshiped and it hurt me, but discipline’s supposed to hurt. I’d like to
say this Vanessa. Yes. Say you wanted to join the army to be something part of
something bigger and better. Yeah. You wouldn’t take your teddy bear and cry
about missing your mum would you? No. So I want to be part of something that’s
pure it’s clean it’s wonderful. I believe the earthly paradise is coming, I’m
trying to get back in. Sometimes because we’re surrounded by imperfect people and
because sometimes the elders don’t understand you. Yeah. Your feelings are
gonna get trampled on, you’re gonna get hurt. But that’s just part of life.
whatever whatever sphere of life you’re in. what about Jim though the element of religion which is
supposed to be about compassion and forgiveness understanding empathy,
those things? There is a lot of that there, but, if you get an elder who is under a lot of pressure on a bad day he can say the wrong thing to you.
That doesn’t make him a bad person that makes him a guy under pressure who’s
doing his best. What I would say was, & i’m not going to get into
individual stuff about what we’ve been talking about. Yeah. But one of the
things is, you got to put God first before your family and I really believe
that and I’ll tell you why. Have you ever seen Jeremy Kyle?
Yes. Of how families treat each other. Yes. It’s terrible. We’re living in a world where people are
horrible to each other they are like husbands and wives and children and
parents. I know but this this word ‘shunning, to shun’ a member of your own
family because of his or her beliefs. But it’s only for a limited time until you come to your senses.
Except we’ve heard of people that it’s been going on for years and years. But
you see, okay, fine. If you accept a set of beliefs right. Yes. And you accept it as
the truth and you let into your heart and then years later you turn aside from
it right. Yeah. You have just trampled on all the beliefs of the people who were
surrounding you. You’ve trampled on all of their beliefs that they believed for
their heart they love. And so you you would really like to get back in.?
Oh yeah! Then I wish you lots of luck with it I hope that you succeed and that you
find happiness and thank you very much indeed for ringing we appreciate it. the chainsmokers and Emily Warren and
side effects I’ve just been saying to Bobbie did you watch Love Island I
haven’t caught up with Love Island. I kind of know what’s happened but I’m gonna
save it. See sometimes you need cartoons in your life and scooby-doo and I think
you know whatever makes you laugh and chillax as the kids say you know I
think maybe that’s the impact of it’s just so undemanding in exactly the same
way as a Scooby Snack well it’s time for the travel Thank You Vanessa first of all away from
Grimsby A180 on the westbound side closed for investigation work
following last night’s accidents it’s closed still between A160 the Brocklesby interchange and the Barnetby top interchange says diversion which
includes the A1. M6 heading south 3a to 3 down towards Nuneaton got a
breakdown of one lane is shut A5 Hinckley partially blocked at the M69
now on the roundabout underneath the M6 now and that’s where the accident is at
Junction 1 so take care as you go off it’s gonna cause some congestion on all
routes there the M25 clockwise a little bit busy between the M4 and the M40 15 to
16 we’ve got two lanes blocked because of a vehicle fire as well on the qe2
road so if you’re clockwise you’ve got some slow traffic was already slowed
there anyway anti-clockwise 16 the m42 13 Staines is heavy and a little bit
slow through Chertsey as well at Junction 11 the m4 eastbound 13 for
Newberg got a breakdown one lane is shut Bristol m4 eastbound at 19 on the exit
slit Road you can’t get past it but there’s an accident so as you go off to
Bristol take care and the Avonmouth bridge the m5 on the northbound side
there’s a breakdown 19 to 18 so take care through there I’m Stroud the a46
Beach’s green that a stretch of the a46 was completely blocked by a breakdown at
the a 41 71 which is the Stratford Road it is open but only small vehicles are
getting through sir looks like buses are struggling and larger lorries tibarn
stop all the a 32 nine North Road is still closed accident at the Hilton key
so just lays on surrounding roads Heathrow Express this is just in London
Paddington Heathrow Terminal five there are heart signalling problems now it
looks like services are at a stand so check before you travel your Italian
folks turn passenger service delays of 30 minutes if your head down there and
if you are heading out in South Western Railway there is strike action today
trains are running but there are restrictions but with another one for
you with Stephen about an hour thank you very much indeed Bobby in a minute
you’re gonna tell us all the scintillating and riveting things that
we should have got up to instead of wasting all those hours watching love
island never got me for telling this story I
get home and it’s my mum she goes oh no you’re not gonna believe what’s
happiness it was radiators rose in the garden
the weather’s nice guns sat in the deck chair and I fell straight through hips
on my mum it’s just rolling around the garden in a deck chair this is sorry
show I’m just standing in having a nice Saturday afternoon so many of you came
in touch my violin my poor husband is that a bad reputation with folding
chairs sat on his chair and it probably fold it back up with him inside but we
were all laughing so much we were unable to help it Rylan Clark Neal this is this
deck chair epidemic it’s like National Saturday afternoon from 3:00 on BBC
Radio 2 my mum is all right by the way last night it kind of escaped your
notice was the final of love island you may well have been one of the four
million people watching it but perhaps you were one of the tens of millions who
did not watch it and if you didn’t do give us a call and
tell us what sad people like me should have been doing instead
if someone whose life has been taken over by the antics of the beautiful
contestant you’ll probably remember their take on brexit what do you think
about Breck sir what what’s that we leave in the European Union I don’t see
receipt don’t have to like if you searched it was to leave the EU so
welfare and like things we trade with would be cut down so does that mean we
won’t have any trees what you saw no we’re just we’re just
not in the European Union was like being in Europe doesn’t it mean it would be
odd to like go to like Spain and stuff shall be harder to go on holidays yeah I
think so I love my holidays it’s really impossible to forget
George’s catchphrase the end of the day I was in the situation I’m very very
loyal so got full of that thread with Jack
you’re very very loyal and who could forget that moment when dr. Alex dumped
Alexandra I can tell you I haven’t been lying I’ve been honest about life being
sold out there was a doubt in your mind when the
new girls came in that you wanted to get to know other people my head did not
turn until you told me that you wanted to get to know other people
you know if you like somebody or not I think you’re pathetic I think you’re
absolutely pathetic waste of my time and you’ve wasted your own shame on me
go on Alexandre she was spot on they’re spot on
maybe you can give a bit of advice to those who’ve been left feeling bereft
including me now that the show has ended what could we have achieved in those 58
I can’t believe is 58 oh my gosh if we hadn’t been wasting it in front of trash
TV give us a call oh no 8000 to 88 to 91 or email vine at
BBC delt coach you keep joining me in the studio delighted to welcome Niki
Hudson the author of a curious history of dating and absolutely rabid love
island fan and Richard Fitzwilliams a film critic in the blissful position of
never having seen a single episode lot of love island chuckles oh my gosh I had
to tell our editor Phil I could just hear my father every single night as I
can’t think for this you went to Cape Nicky maybe you’ll tell me why I was and
why four million other people well why did we want I am I’m going to sanctify
your viewing please do so the thing about love island is that in this
country in general we have very poor emotional literacy we’re not very good
talking about our feelings or about relationships and what love islands
allowed a lot of people to do was explore issues around things like
gaslighting dating after sex work how you end a relationship with someone
humane I mean that gaslighting what is a bass fighting is when usually a man but
not always denies that they’ve lured you into a certain kind of conversation or
revealed emotions to you so the situation specifically specifically on
love Island was between Adam and Rosie where she got really mad at him that
he’d basically dumped her and he just sat there smirking the whole time and
tried to play down the fact that he’d ever had any kind of emotional
connection with her now that’s a form of emotional abuse and that was brought up
as an issue and lots of people were very quick to jump on social media and
discuss it with each other and what has been so important about this show is
that it’s really engaged especially younger people in talking about feelings
and what kind of behavior is okay you make it sound very very serious give it a good old how I felt I don’t
think well anyway but that’s what’s so great about the program you can watch it
and have loads of fun watch it you know you’ll you kind of championing your
favorite character and all the rest of it but at the same time there are
serious issues being explored but it’s not done in a heavy-handed way which is
the perfect way to teach someone about how to have a good relation uh nuh V
issues are real at all its superficial it’s a Tele set up there they’re people
who’ve been chosen because they look a certain way they all look exactly the
same you know like Barbie and Ken pretty much and none of it’s real you can’t
learn anything worth learning from something like that it’s a form of the
most extraordinary kind of escapist I do know because you know you’d have to be a
grade-a sociopath to keep up the act for eight weeks of pretending that you were
into someone or not you know if you put people in that environment we’ve seen it
with Big Brother folks for decades now people do have genuine emotional
interactions with each of their feelings come up their humors very empathic
they’re going to show you a some element of their character maybe you’re not
going to see all of it because of the way their editors edit the show but you
are gonna get a sense of what drives people or I reach to fix Williams why
haven’t you been watching it the way Nikki sells it you know think of all the
things you could have learned about emotional interesting well I’m thinking
of us the things I’ve been doing instead of watching this inverted pyramid of
TEFL and the things other people this traction if you want one example of it
being trash you just look at that conversation on brexit I’m in
conversation inverted commas call it gas lighting if you’d like or whatever the
whole thing is like a complete vacuum it’s a total waste of time may I just
point out some of the things that could London example we have the world’s
finest theatre instead of watching these pseudo emotions in some clapped-out
whatever which is edited and I speak on behalf of the 56 million people who
didn’t waste all those hours why not for example see the most recent Royal
Shakespeare Company Julius Caesar Hamilton did both you don’t have to do
one or the other do you can do both a lot of people don’t have the money to
travel to London or go to the theatre this is what they have that’s the beauty
of TV in 1930s what was the most popular
things people to do it was to kiss and cuddle in the dark because that’s one of
the only places they could do it and what she’s grand romantic passions play
on the screen right he’s not any different to kiss and cuddle in the did
your living room with synthetic creatures no but I’m trying to be doing
look at the world and the future of dating is what I’m working on next and I
needed to watch love island to be able to see what has been shown to the public I felt that I needed to it I’m not
slightly pretending because obviously thoroughly enjoyed submission but I
thought I needed to watch it so that I could discuss it with everyone else who
was watching the a reason for watching it was to say that you had because lots
of other people were said that you didn’t feel left out what an exhibition
at the Royal Academy went up Frida Kahlo wasting 55 56 hours doing quite frankly
I mean the way you had a lot of fun with it fair enough but to read deep meanings
I get very annoyed when people write off programs about relationships as trivial
or women’s issues people in this country don’t understand bricks it was vital to
explain that lots of us and if you’re going to in fact what about films how
about films Mission Impossible Mamma Mia soloist they don’t interest me let me sing something into the mix what
about the notion that love island can be isn’t always obviously but can be the
the the the breeding ground for true and enduring love I mean I’ve got a list
here Lewis and Kali parents to the first-ever love Island baby are still
together they’re from series one car and Nathan when is a series to expecting a
baby they split up and now they’re engaged Alex and Olivia series to engage
getting married this year Domon J I mean I could go on and I’ve got old Lister
better success rate than tinder the other thing of course is they end up
making a Miss colossal amount of money amount of money but also a colossal
amount of time you’re dealing with fifty six hours which is how many hours as
Wimbledon plus the football which he was a Wimbledon probably would three me
about half a dozen now six seven hours something I see you restricted your
viewing you could easily have sat and watched it for longer like some people
would have that could go on for house maybe 57 or 58 hours of this and we’d
all thoroughly enjoyed but I get to say thank you very much indeed tinky-winky
hearts in the richard fits we lives and of course we’re looking for your calls
on this if you were to request for the lovely Kathy from Phil our editor to say
very happy birthday and it comes with oodles and oodles of lovers were his
exact words love Island will Alexandra says I’ve been busy walking my dogs in
the sunshine on Haitian beach enjoying the sunset then using a watering can to
water my plants in pots then I put water out for hedgehogs and seeds in bird
feeders I have no time for love island as Susan from Cardiff says I was
watching paint dry instead of watching love island and it was way more
interesting as Sarah says I’d never watch love island before and took the
mickey out of those who did but my daughter and my son’s girlfriend made me
watch an episode and I was hooked it was an emotional roller coaster for
the couples inside and I found myself teary-eyed watching their stories unfold
it was a break from brexit and Martin and sister says instead of watching love
island people should have been reading books with their children or teaching
them how to solder or make cakes people should be ashamed of giving their lives
to this mindless twaddle let’s go to Joe’s on the line in Nottingham Joe hi
there hello how are you I’m all right thank
you you watched every second of it we did we watched every episode my daughter
and I 9 to 10 that was us every single evening yet with the ask the son if he
plays on the Sunday as well are you going to feel a bit lost now can you
explain what it was about it that you really enjoyed so I’m finding it hard to
know what it was I think maybe it was a certain kind of innocence and romantic I
don’t know they wanted to fall in love was that it I think so and I think with
the drama as well there was there was drama pretty much every night you felt
like you got to know them you felt like you’re on their journey with them you
know it’s quite a cliche but a journey you know they’ve gone on this journey I
think I thought – and I was very much something we had in common at that time
and I’m embarrassing because I’m her mom of course but when you’re watching it
together and you can talk about it afterwards it was just something that we
had in common at that hour of the day I found that it was very easy making
conversation with absolutely everyone cuz you just mentioned it everybody just
took off with some kind of point of view or other do you feel you squandered
fifty eight hours no not at all because as I say I’ve got the children and it
was like 9 o’clock is my time with my daughter so 9 o’clock we both you know
we’re in front of the telly talked about what’s happening and talking about last
night’s episode who we think it’s gonna be couple with who so I don’t think so –
it was it was quality time for me with my daughter
last night’s final a bit of a damp squib because we knew who’d won it from the
very first minute didn’t we yeah it was a given wasn’t it if they make it say
Lucas series with Jack and Danny will you watch it ok thank you
why you just thought they were adorable yes I do and I think we’ve heard that as
well it just sort of made it I thought it was great do you think that their
relationship will last definitely yeah don’t you I do not too
sure about any of the others but definitely though what about when her
grandparents came in I just love that oh it was so nice yeah life is never going
to be the same again let me go to Martin hello Martin you
were watching it where you were doing something very different
hi that’s a nightmare the lated honeymoon with my wife sue we had to
perspiring from last year because I was ill and yeah we managed to go right
through France Switzerland and down to Lake Tyrone Lake Garda in Italy on the
motorbike honeymoon what a wonderful holiday Wow and you say that having been
so ill has really given you the chance to kind of evaluate what’s important to
do and what’s not important and you wouldn’t want to waste your time
watching that kind of telly judgemental I mean you know do more of what makes
you happy is what I’m always saying to my phones but yeah given given the
choice I’d be out there you know touring and living light and meeting people
because in the end the the journeys in Europe amazed by the people that you
meet and some friends that we met out there yeah it’s a great thing to do and
I think for me you’ve got to realise that you don’t
need anybody’s permission to go and do these things you just need to decide and
that’s a big deal though because I think lots of us don’t don’t realise that we
think we think one day someone will give us a a certificate saying ok now you can
go and fulfill your dream yeah yeah absolutely but you you really can do it
and of course money is an issue but you know it doesn’t it doesn’t have to be
something massive and dramatic and it can be climb that hill you wanted to
climb go go and see that great time and thanks so much for the call Rosen
Warwick says you asked what else you could have been doing instead of
watching love island cleaning the loo unplugging the sink washing your hair
clipping your toenails this and other ghastly reality TV shows on TV sadly
just show how vacuous those involved and watching are and Marin Bromley I’m 21 I
love love island it’s one hour of TV in the day I still manage to do a vast
amount of things love Island began really important conversations about
sexuality mental health and a million other things surely in Salisbury what an
awful show it lowers the morals of youngsters watching because you see
people humping in bed it’s vacuous I’ve been doing my
gardening and I got to see my friends instead I wouldn’t watch loved Island
if you paid me a million pounds and Trevor from Maidstone says my total Roxy
and my partner Bev watched every episode of love Island I found it the biggest
load of catalyzing dross I’ve ever seen on TV I left the room went into the
kitchen and got on with cleaning the dishes left over from our evening meal
I suppose that was one way of getting me to wash up that’s Charles and Eddie and
would I lie to you that’s it from me for today Steve Wright’s coming up next with
the big show his guest the broadcaster Angela Rippon
and Chef Jack Stein the James Capital in Stockport picks the nonstop olders have
a wonderful day I’ll see you tomorrow afternoon lots of love this is BBC Radio
2 online on digital radio and on 88 to 91 fm with the BBC news of two o’clock this is
Jason Cain the Crown Prosecution Service has dropped terrorism charges against a
former soldier from London who fought with Kurdish forces against Islamic
state militants in Syria Jim Matthews who’s 43 was due to go on trial in
November accused of attending terrorist training camps his barrister said his
arrest more than two years ago was extraordinary and totally unjustified
it’s emerged of the Royal Navy rescued the Manchester arena suicide bomber from
Libya’s Civil War three years before he carried out the attack last May Salman
Abady and more than a hundred other British nationals were ferried from
Tripoli to Malta by HMS Enterprise in 2014 the President of the Board of
Deputies of British Jews has called on labour to expel an ally of Jeremy Corbyn
who described members of the Jewish community as Trump fanatics who were
inventing allegations of anti-semitism within the party Peter wills Minh made
the comments at a meeting of Labour’s ruling Executive Committee and he has
since apologized the Labour MP Luciana Burgess said she was appalled how is
that possible that that was said in a meeting with at least 40 members the
National Executive Committee and the subsequent is that no action is being
taken it’s completely unacceptable the Charity Commission has urged aid
agencies to work harder ensuring they understand their responsibilities after
a report found sex abuse was endemic in the sector the Commons International
Development Committee has been looking into allegations of abuse following
revelations that senior staff at Oxfam Oxfam had paid for survive that had paid
survivors of the 2010 earthquake in Haiti for sex Farhan Aziz hack who
speaks for the secretary-general of the United Nations said his organisation
accepted it had to tackle the problem we are taking this seriously what is needed
in many ways is a change in culture and we’re trying to take a leadership role
in doing just that to make sure that across the board no one accepts this is
okay the former round-the-world sailor Tony
Polly Moore has died at the age of 79 after suffering a rare form of cancer he
was at the center of a famous rescue in 1997
when he survived for four days in the upturned hull of his yacht after it
capsized during a race in a previous interview he described the moment he was
rescued by an Australian Navy ship I got out and then I started to slowly go up
to the surface and it got brighter and brighter and when I broke surface the
amazing thing was I was looking straight at the other lathe and it was sitting
there you know it was then hope to and it was just rocking with the sea and I
thought God a big grin come on my face I said I’ve been saved I was quite amazed

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  1. They don't really shun really in the most cut and dry sense. They won't associate with you if you're deliberately going against Bible practices and principals. They can still say hi and talk in passing but not hang out. Because it may influence others to take up practices that may be against the Bible. They follow the Bible as best as they can when it says to stay out of the world.

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